Перерыл весь и-нет в поисках мануала к EWQLSO Platinum, но не нашел. Господа, поделитесь, пожалуйста, у кого есть! :unsure: Очень нужно.
Мануал к EWQLSO Platinum
- Автор темы Вовик
- Дата начала
Да мне интересно, как они сами трактуют совместное использование C F S позиций. Каждый по своему делает, в том числе и я, а хочется читануть их рекомендации.
Вовик,
Из неофициального мануала
=== CHAPTER 3 ===
THE 3 MIC POSITIONS
Although the information in this chapter relates mostly to the Platinum version of EWQLSO, much of what is discussed here can help those who own other versions understand how the samples were recorded. In addition, the Gold library does include a selection of samples from the close mics and halls mics. The Silver library contains sample from the F microphones only.
Much has been written about extra efforts of the EWQLSO team to record all samples from three separate microphone positions within the hall. To understand how the three mic positions work, let’s perform a quick Gedankenexperiment (thought experiment). Imagine yourself in Carnegie Hall with an entire symphony orchestra on the stage.
First, you’re invited to sit directly in front of the oboe player who plays a melody. What you hear approximates the sound recorded in the “close” © mic position. The sound coming directly from the instrument is so much louder than the reflections off the walls and other surfaces that these reverberations make up a very small part of what you hear.
Next, you’re placed in a chair at the very front of the stage—or maybe the front row of the house—and you listen to the same oboe melody. Now you hear more of the natural reverberation
of the hall because your ears are not so overpowered by the sound coming directly from the oboe. This sound is captured by the “stage” mics, also know as the “full” (F) mics, a cluster of microphones near the front of the stage.
Finally, you’re asked to sit nearer the back of the house and high up, maybe at the front of the Balcony. The same oboe melody is played. From this perspective, the full acoustics of the hall are most evident because your hear clearly the sound bouncing off the ceiling, the walls, all the reflective surfaces, in front of you and even behind. It can be a very lush sound, though perhaps lacking in the immediacy of a closer position; however, adding in a little of this sound (either in a stereo mix or in the rear speakers of a surround-sound recording) can add dimension to the recording. This mic position was used to create the “surround” (S) samples, sometimes called the “hall” mics.
This is the first orchestral sample library to include user control of three simultaneous stereo microphone
setups (close, stage and hall) for all instruments and sections. You can mix together any combination of these microphone positions to control tone and ambience. It’s like virtually repositioning
the listener by incrementally moving out from the close mics, to the stage mics, to the hall mics (known as audio zoom), all in real-time!
In the Platinum library, these samples can be loaded individually, from files with the .nki extension, or all three perspectives at once, from a multi file with the .nkm extension.
All three sets of samples were recorded simultaneously for each note in the library. Therefore, there are predictable and natural delays in the time it take the music to reach the further mics. This latency
is the natural reverb of the hall and produces a pleasing fullness to the sound when the samples
are mixed. If you want to tighten up the reverb from the S samples, it is possible with modern
sequencers and mixers to adjust the audio track from the S samples a little forward in time. Either perform a calculation using the speed of sound at sea level (approximately 340 meters/second; 1120 feet/second, if you prefer) or let your ears decide what works best.
The close mics, of course, have virtually no latency: only a small amount necessary to retain the sonic perspective of the orchestra in the concert hall. If you don’t use the close mics, and you play something that requires very quick and punchy attacks, you may notice some small delay, which can be cured by adding in some of the close mics. In most cases you would want to use the close mics to add definition to an instrument or section. The idea is to experiment until you find a combination that works.
The picture on the previous page shows the three mic positions drawn in a diagram of a typical concert hall. The semicircular area at the top is where the orchestra sits.
All the C’s represent the various positions of the close © mics as they were set up next to each instrument or section. The mics were near enough to capture the presence of the instrument, but far enough away to allow the sound of the instrument to breathe.
The F represents the approximate positon of the cluster of full (F) mics. These are the samples that appear in all three levels of EWQLSO. They provide a best-seat-in-the-house perspective.
The S shows approximately where the hall (S) mics were positioned.
During sampling, the simultaneous recordings from all three positions were phase-locked. This attention to detail ensures that the samples can be bounced down to a single audio track without introducing phasing problems.
Many composers still work in stereo only. You can mix all three ambiences together without any phasing issues. You will actually hear a lot of dimension in your stereo mixes. Consider this: if you render a close mix, a full mix, and a surround mix of every song you write, you will have an archive that can be used to create surround mixes in the future. And you know it will work—perfectly! This technique also allows you to do quick, wetter or drier remixes in the future.Reverb Control
Controlling the reverb can be as easy as adjusting the level of surround (S) mics, and turning on or off the close © mics. If you require more control, the volume of the release trails can be altered. Simply use the group editor in the Kompakt interface; choose the release trail group, with Edit All unchecked, and change the volume. Be very careful what you do though; some programs may have the release trails split into many groups. For these, you need to change the volumes of all groups. See the chapter about the Kompakt user interface for more detail.Some Sound Advice
Generally, in our opinion, the full (F) mix has the best overall sound of the three mixes, but a combination
of the three mic setups usually creates the most impressive sound. Many instruments sound best with the close © mics turned down in volume (leaving enough of the close mics to add definition).
Try this: Boost the close © mics up to 6db (bell shape with a fairly wide Q) between 5K and 10K. Then roll off the frequencies below 800Hz so you are down about 10db at 50Hz. Then mix the C
track into the F track at a low volume to add clarity and sheen to the stage mics. (Be careful not to use too much of the close mics with this EQ curve.) Other instruments may sound just right, using an equal blend of all ambiences. Sordino strings sound best using just the C mics (with no EQ) plus S mics in the mix. The harp sounds great with a little close © and lots of F and S. Again, the idea is to experiment until you find a combination that works.
VARIOUS WAYS TO COMBINE THE SAMPLESUsing C and S Mics Sparingly
One possible approach when using the Platinum library to create a stereo mix is to use primarily the F samples and then blend in just enough of the C samples to provide more immediacy to some instruments and enough of the S samples to create a more natural reverb to the overall sound. There’s no reason to keep the mix constant for the duration of the piece. Maybe you’ll want to add in a little extra C on the solos that need to cut through a multi-layered accompaniment, or push up the S perspective to make the hunting horns sound more distant when they first appear. Use your ear and your imagination to find the best mix for both you and the piece you’re working on.Blending All Three Mics
Another approach is to create three mixes of a piece that are identical except that they were “played” with the three separate sets of samples. Each of the three “takes” (C, F, and S) is bounced down to a stereo track. In a final bounce-down, the volume levels of the three perspectives are adjusted to achieve a single track with the desired sound. This approach can generate either stereo tracks or any of the surround sound formats (4.0, 5.1, LCR+LFE, Matrix UHJ, and many others). More on surround sound comes later.
Go for the Inimate—or the Expansive—Sound
Note that some musical styles can benefit from using the C or S sound as the starting point. The sound of a recorded wind quintet—or other chamber ensemble—might be best approximated by using mostly the C samples. And a dreamy or mysterious soundscape might be more effective when based on the S samples. Let your ears decide.
Highlighting a Soloist Within the Orchestra
Start by creating a track of the soloist based mostly on the C samples, so the sound will stand out. Then push that sound backward in the soundscape a little by adjusting the EQ of the soloist’s samples.
Give the sound a bit of a boost at the high end, and a cut in the low- and mid-range. This will offset the natural proximity effect of the C samples, and listeners will hear that oboist, for example, sitting in the middle of the woodwind section.
Creating a Soloist Up Front
To bring the soloist to the front of the stage, next to the conductor, as if performing in a concerto, reverse the EQ settings described above: cut the high-end frequencies just a little and boost the mid- and low-end settings. You may want to add just a little extra reverb to the soloist’s C samples to make the aound even more prominent.
Beyond the Panning Controls
As mentioned earlier, all EWQLSO instruments take their traditional position on the concert hall stage. And the panning position is reinforced by tiny differences in the arrival of sounds to the left and right mics. Not only do the sounds direct from the instrument have different arrival times, but so also do the reverberations from the left and right walls. This is true, though, only for the F and S mics on the center line of the concert hall; for the C mics, any difference in timing is imperceptible.
To fit properly in the soundscape, the C samples are programmatically panned left or right to simulate
their respective positions on the stage (you can see that in the Kompakt interface). But panning only affects relative volume of the two channels.
If you want to pin down perceived location even more strongly when using the C mics, it’s possible to time-adjust the left and right channels separately to move the instrument where you want it. To reinforce panning an instrument to the listener’s left, first remember that the direct sound in the C mics is stronger than the natural reverb. Therefore, take its EQ’ed left channel audio and move it earlier a few milliseconds; this will simulate the instrument’s sound arriving at the left mic first. Also, move its EQ’ed right channel later, as if it took longer for the sound to get to the right microphone. Reverse those direction to pan the instrument to the right.
Surround Sound Samples: Stereo Mixing
When using the S samples for two-channel mixes, adding in a little of the lush sound of the S mics can convincingly convey the feeling of a live recording in a concert hall: well, at least as much as any stereo recording can do that. If you want a realistic concert hall sound, do not over-add the S samples; a little in the mix may be all you need. Those looking for other types of recordings (film scores, audio tracks for games, etc.) should feel free to experiment.
Surround Sound Samples: Surround Sound Mixing
This discussion focuses on the most popular format, 5.1, but the guiding principles apply to these other standards as well.
Here’s a starting point for creating the 6 channels you need to create a discreet 5.1 recording. Feel free to experiment with variations.
Front Center: Take either the left or right signal from the stereo C mics—but not both left and right. Use this to create the immediacy needed for the front center. Front Left & Right: The F mics (left and right) are assigned to the front speakers (left and right). Add in a little of the S mics here for a lusher overall sound. Rear Left & Right: The two rear channels accept input from the two stereo S mics exclusively. Use your judgment about how much signal to send here, based on the type of recording you’re creating. LFE: The low frequency and effects channel should be pulled from a mix of all the other channels;
that is, the relative volume of the various mics (including any time delays and EQ applied separately to discreet channels) should be proportionally applied to the LFE channel. Also be
sure that you use a cross-over to that only passes to the FLE channel frequencies below the cut-off, and that also removes those exact same frequencies from the other 5 channels. Not excluding
the low-frequency sounds from the other channels results in inappropriate doubling of those sounds.
Из неофициального мануала
=== CHAPTER 3 ===
THE 3 MIC POSITIONS
Although the information in this chapter relates mostly to the Platinum version of EWQLSO, much of what is discussed here can help those who own other versions understand how the samples were recorded. In addition, the Gold library does include a selection of samples from the close mics and halls mics. The Silver library contains sample from the F microphones only.
Much has been written about extra efforts of the EWQLSO team to record all samples from three separate microphone positions within the hall. To understand how the three mic positions work, let’s perform a quick Gedankenexperiment (thought experiment). Imagine yourself in Carnegie Hall with an entire symphony orchestra on the stage.
First, you’re invited to sit directly in front of the oboe player who plays a melody. What you hear approximates the sound recorded in the “close” © mic position. The sound coming directly from the instrument is so much louder than the reflections off the walls and other surfaces that these reverberations make up a very small part of what you hear.
Next, you’re placed in a chair at the very front of the stage—or maybe the front row of the house—and you listen to the same oboe melody. Now you hear more of the natural reverberation
of the hall because your ears are not so overpowered by the sound coming directly from the oboe. This sound is captured by the “stage” mics, also know as the “full” (F) mics, a cluster of microphones near the front of the stage.
Finally, you’re asked to sit nearer the back of the house and high up, maybe at the front of the Balcony. The same oboe melody is played. From this perspective, the full acoustics of the hall are most evident because your hear clearly the sound bouncing off the ceiling, the walls, all the reflective surfaces, in front of you and even behind. It can be a very lush sound, though perhaps lacking in the immediacy of a closer position; however, adding in a little of this sound (either in a stereo mix or in the rear speakers of a surround-sound recording) can add dimension to the recording. This mic position was used to create the “surround” (S) samples, sometimes called the “hall” mics.
This is the first orchestral sample library to include user control of three simultaneous stereo microphone
setups (close, stage and hall) for all instruments and sections. You can mix together any combination of these microphone positions to control tone and ambience. It’s like virtually repositioning
the listener by incrementally moving out from the close mics, to the stage mics, to the hall mics (known as audio zoom), all in real-time!
In the Platinum library, these samples can be loaded individually, from files with the .nki extension, or all three perspectives at once, from a multi file with the .nkm extension.
All three sets of samples were recorded simultaneously for each note in the library. Therefore, there are predictable and natural delays in the time it take the music to reach the further mics. This latency
is the natural reverb of the hall and produces a pleasing fullness to the sound when the samples
are mixed. If you want to tighten up the reverb from the S samples, it is possible with modern
sequencers and mixers to adjust the audio track from the S samples a little forward in time. Either perform a calculation using the speed of sound at sea level (approximately 340 meters/second; 1120 feet/second, if you prefer) or let your ears decide what works best.
The close mics, of course, have virtually no latency: only a small amount necessary to retain the sonic perspective of the orchestra in the concert hall. If you don’t use the close mics, and you play something that requires very quick and punchy attacks, you may notice some small delay, which can be cured by adding in some of the close mics. In most cases you would want to use the close mics to add definition to an instrument or section. The idea is to experiment until you find a combination that works.
The picture on the previous page shows the three mic positions drawn in a diagram of a typical concert hall. The semicircular area at the top is where the orchestra sits.
All the C’s represent the various positions of the close © mics as they were set up next to each instrument or section. The mics were near enough to capture the presence of the instrument, but far enough away to allow the sound of the instrument to breathe.
The F represents the approximate positon of the cluster of full (F) mics. These are the samples that appear in all three levels of EWQLSO. They provide a best-seat-in-the-house perspective.
The S shows approximately where the hall (S) mics were positioned.
During sampling, the simultaneous recordings from all three positions were phase-locked. This attention to detail ensures that the samples can be bounced down to a single audio track without introducing phasing problems.
Many composers still work in stereo only. You can mix all three ambiences together without any phasing issues. You will actually hear a lot of dimension in your stereo mixes. Consider this: if you render a close mix, a full mix, and a surround mix of every song you write, you will have an archive that can be used to create surround mixes in the future. And you know it will work—perfectly! This technique also allows you to do quick, wetter or drier remixes in the future.Reverb Control
Controlling the reverb can be as easy as adjusting the level of surround (S) mics, and turning on or off the close © mics. If you require more control, the volume of the release trails can be altered. Simply use the group editor in the Kompakt interface; choose the release trail group, with Edit All unchecked, and change the volume. Be very careful what you do though; some programs may have the release trails split into many groups. For these, you need to change the volumes of all groups. See the chapter about the Kompakt user interface for more detail.Some Sound Advice
Generally, in our opinion, the full (F) mix has the best overall sound of the three mixes, but a combination
of the three mic setups usually creates the most impressive sound. Many instruments sound best with the close © mics turned down in volume (leaving enough of the close mics to add definition).
Try this: Boost the close © mics up to 6db (bell shape with a fairly wide Q) between 5K and 10K. Then roll off the frequencies below 800Hz so you are down about 10db at 50Hz. Then mix the C
track into the F track at a low volume to add clarity and sheen to the stage mics. (Be careful not to use too much of the close mics with this EQ curve.) Other instruments may sound just right, using an equal blend of all ambiences. Sordino strings sound best using just the C mics (with no EQ) plus S mics in the mix. The harp sounds great with a little close © and lots of F and S. Again, the idea is to experiment until you find a combination that works.
VARIOUS WAYS TO COMBINE THE SAMPLESUsing C and S Mics Sparingly
One possible approach when using the Platinum library to create a stereo mix is to use primarily the F samples and then blend in just enough of the C samples to provide more immediacy to some instruments and enough of the S samples to create a more natural reverb to the overall sound. There’s no reason to keep the mix constant for the duration of the piece. Maybe you’ll want to add in a little extra C on the solos that need to cut through a multi-layered accompaniment, or push up the S perspective to make the hunting horns sound more distant when they first appear. Use your ear and your imagination to find the best mix for both you and the piece you’re working on.Blending All Three Mics
Another approach is to create three mixes of a piece that are identical except that they were “played” with the three separate sets of samples. Each of the three “takes” (C, F, and S) is bounced down to a stereo track. In a final bounce-down, the volume levels of the three perspectives are adjusted to achieve a single track with the desired sound. This approach can generate either stereo tracks or any of the surround sound formats (4.0, 5.1, LCR+LFE, Matrix UHJ, and many others). More on surround sound comes later.
Go for the Inimate—or the Expansive—Sound
Note that some musical styles can benefit from using the C or S sound as the starting point. The sound of a recorded wind quintet—or other chamber ensemble—might be best approximated by using mostly the C samples. And a dreamy or mysterious soundscape might be more effective when based on the S samples. Let your ears decide.
Highlighting a Soloist Within the Orchestra
Start by creating a track of the soloist based mostly on the C samples, so the sound will stand out. Then push that sound backward in the soundscape a little by adjusting the EQ of the soloist’s samples.
Give the sound a bit of a boost at the high end, and a cut in the low- and mid-range. This will offset the natural proximity effect of the C samples, and listeners will hear that oboist, for example, sitting in the middle of the woodwind section.
Creating a Soloist Up Front
To bring the soloist to the front of the stage, next to the conductor, as if performing in a concerto, reverse the EQ settings described above: cut the high-end frequencies just a little and boost the mid- and low-end settings. You may want to add just a little extra reverb to the soloist’s C samples to make the aound even more prominent.
Beyond the Panning Controls
As mentioned earlier, all EWQLSO instruments take their traditional position on the concert hall stage. And the panning position is reinforced by tiny differences in the arrival of sounds to the left and right mics. Not only do the sounds direct from the instrument have different arrival times, but so also do the reverberations from the left and right walls. This is true, though, only for the F and S mics on the center line of the concert hall; for the C mics, any difference in timing is imperceptible.
To fit properly in the soundscape, the C samples are programmatically panned left or right to simulate
their respective positions on the stage (you can see that in the Kompakt interface). But panning only affects relative volume of the two channels.
If you want to pin down perceived location even more strongly when using the C mics, it’s possible to time-adjust the left and right channels separately to move the instrument where you want it. To reinforce panning an instrument to the listener’s left, first remember that the direct sound in the C mics is stronger than the natural reverb. Therefore, take its EQ’ed left channel audio and move it earlier a few milliseconds; this will simulate the instrument’s sound arriving at the left mic first. Also, move its EQ’ed right channel later, as if it took longer for the sound to get to the right microphone. Reverse those direction to pan the instrument to the right.
Surround Sound Samples: Stereo Mixing
When using the S samples for two-channel mixes, adding in a little of the lush sound of the S mics can convincingly convey the feeling of a live recording in a concert hall: well, at least as much as any stereo recording can do that. If you want a realistic concert hall sound, do not over-add the S samples; a little in the mix may be all you need. Those looking for other types of recordings (film scores, audio tracks for games, etc.) should feel free to experiment.
Surround Sound Samples: Surround Sound Mixing
This discussion focuses on the most popular format, 5.1, but the guiding principles apply to these other standards as well.
Here’s a starting point for creating the 6 channels you need to create a discreet 5.1 recording. Feel free to experiment with variations.
Front Center: Take either the left or right signal from the stereo C mics—but not both left and right. Use this to create the immediacy needed for the front center. Front Left & Right: The F mics (left and right) are assigned to the front speakers (left and right). Add in a little of the S mics here for a lusher overall sound. Rear Left & Right: The two rear channels accept input from the two stereo S mics exclusively. Use your judgment about how much signal to send here, based on the type of recording you’re creating. LFE: The low frequency and effects channel should be pulled from a mix of all the other channels;
that is, the relative volume of the various mics (including any time delays and EQ applied separately to discreet channels) should be proportionally applied to the LFE channel. Also be
sure that you use a cross-over to that only passes to the FLE channel frequencies below the cut-off, and that also removes those exact same frequencies from the other 5 channels. Not excluding
the low-frequency sounds from the other channels results in inappropriate doubling of those sounds.
Где-то на форуме пробегал мануал.
Насчёт использования микрофонов, в нём написано, что можно делать как угодно
.
Но как вариант предлагают использовать за основу семплы F. А на семплах C примерно от 1 KHz шельфом убрать децибел на 6. А на 7-8 KHz добавить несколько децибел. И подмешивать их аккуратно к F.
Я пробовал - неплохо получается. Как вариант.
Насчёт использования микрофонов, в нём написано, что можно делать как угодно
.Но как вариант предлагают использовать за основу семплы F. А на семплах C примерно от 1 KHz шельфом убрать децибел на 6. А на 7-8 KHz добавить несколько децибел. И подмешивать их аккуратно к F.
Я пробовал - неплохо получается. Как вариант.
P00H огромная благодарность! И как это я не нашел?! 
Вот только странно. Как пространственность оркестра сочетать с EWQLSH. Там ведь поющие "со словами" пресеты только С. Сам я пока лишь баловался с этим хором (после живого состава уши коробит немного), но нужно будет делать одну вещицу с его использованием. Мастера, подскажите выход из ситуации.
Конечно можно и орк. и хор писать только С сэмплами, но хочеться использовать эти махины по максимому.
Вот только странно. Как пространственность оркестра сочетать с EWQLSH. Там ведь поющие "со словами" пресеты только С. Сам я пока лишь баловался с этим хором (после живого состава уши коробит немного), но нужно будет делать одну вещицу с его использованием. Мастера, подскажите выход из ситуации.
Конечно можно и орк. и хор писать только С сэмплами, но хочеться использовать эти махины по максимому.
)
Вовик, думаю вы ошибаетесь.
В Symphonic Choirs есть три позиции(C,F,S) так же как и у SO Platinum. Разве нет?
В Symphonic Choirs есть три позиции(C,F,S) так же как и у SO Platinum. Разве нет?
<div class='quotetop'>Цитата</div>
Тоесть там есть разделы:
CLOSE MULTIS WB ©
FULL MULTES WB (F)
SURROUND MULTIS WB (S)
Их всех сразу конечно не загрузишь. Для этого нужно, ну очень, очень мощьный комп.
Вовик. Точно знаю, что и мульти пресеты разделены на C, F и S
Тоесть там есть разделы:
CLOSE MULTIS WB ©
FULL MULTES WB (F)
SURROUND MULTIS WB (S)
Их всех сразу конечно не загрузишь. Для этого нужно, ну очень, очень мощьный комп.
Эх-эх-эх. 
А то я в основном мультипресетами шпарю в оркестре, вот думал, как их грамотно объеденить.
А то я в основном мультипресетами шпарю в оркестре, вот думал, как их грамотно объеденить.
<div class='quotetop'>Цитата</div>
Вовик. Точно знаю, что и мульти пресеты разделены на C, F и S
Тоесть там есть разделы:
CLOSE MULTIS WB ©
FULL MULTES WB (F)
SURROUND MULTIS WB (S)
Их всех сразу конечно не загрузишь. Для этого нужно, ну очень, очень мощьный комп.
А нужно ли их сразу грузить? ИМХО лучше акустику помещения самому делать
